The Bolton Ford Incident

Wed 05 Apr 2017, 10:22 am

Jim Hargrove wrote:The Bolton Ford Incident

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.
Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42
When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." 61-04

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."
Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.61-05

[img(79.77778px,23.77778px)]http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif[/img]

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.43 After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in
Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961
and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.
Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.
On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”
There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.
Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

[img(874.7777799999999px,1426.77778px)]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/5qjm39cmqhnzf15/Deslatte1.png?dl=0[/img]

This is a perfect example of the how dishonest these people are.

Deslatte specifically stated that regarding the Oswald character, no first name was given. That information was obtained only days after the assassination.

So what does Armstrong do? He relies on the Garrison interview of Deslatte's boss Fred Sewell. Sewell claimed Deslattewas given the name "Lee Oswald" and that this was the name written on the paperwork. Problem is, the paperwork confirms Deslatte's memory, The name listed is simply "Oswald".

In 1963 Deslatte was unable to describe Oswald. Years later, Sewell had no such problem. Insread, he gave Armstrong a problem. His description was 5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. Armstrong however, claims this was the historical :Lee Harvey Oswald - who - according to Armstrong was a strapping lad of 5' 11" with athletic build, How does Armstrong address this issue? As far as I can tell, he doesn't. He just ignores it and hopes no one else notices. Larsen noticed, but so far Hargrove has not responded, and Larsen seems in no hurry to repeat the statement.

The evidence indicates that "Oswald" was the only name given. There were no shortage of Oswald's in Louisiana. Alternatively, the whole story could have been cooked up for publicity, with Oswald's name added post-assassination. Sewell's description could be based on a best guess from seeing Oswald on TV, with them not realizing that Oswald was out of the country at the time Moore was asking about the trucks. That makes the most sense simply because the people involved in The Friends of Democratic Cuba could pay for the trucks themselves. If they wanted to disguise that the money was CIA, then the CIA using a double for someone they had sent overseas makes no sense. And I have certainly heard no sensible argument for this event in any case - only vague statements about Doppelganger CIA ops and creating legends and confusion.

Has anyone ever tried to find out for example, if there was anyone named Oswald involved with Friends of Democratic Cuba? Has anyone looked into whether Bolton Ford manager Sewell pulled any publicity stunts before or after this event? Or what the reputation of the business was?

The research on this makes "half-arsed" look brilliant.

Wed 05 Apr 2017, 12:03 pm

jim hargrovr wrote:As usual, Parnell points to Greg Parker’s private website pretending an answer is there. Parnell is too ashamed to put arguments into his own words because he knows how feeble they are. This is exactly the way he handled the simultaneous attendance of Oswald at PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans. He has no answers, and so he pretends Greg Parker does.

Use your own words, Tracy. Stop hiding behind Greg Parker! Speak up!

Hargrove is attacking the messenger in hopes that no one notices his failure to address the message.

Bravo, Jim!

Wed 05 Apr 2017, 11:14 pm

greg parker wrote:

jim hargrovr wrote:As usual, Parnell points to Greg Parker’s private website pretending an answer is there. Parnell is too ashamed to put arguments into his own words because he knows how feeble they are. This is exactly the way he handled the simultaneous attendance of Oswald at PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans. He has no answers, and so he pretends Greg Parker does.

Use your own words, Tracy. Stop hiding behind Greg Parker! Speak up!

Hargrove is attacking the messenger in hopes that no one notices his failure to address the message.

Bravo, Jim!

Yes, it is really what these people do best. When they deflect, the stench becomes apparent.

Thu 06 Apr 2017, 2:57 am

greg parker wrote:

jim hargrovr wrote:As usual, Parnell points to Greg Parker’s private website pretending an answer is there. Parnell is too ashamed to put arguments into his own words because he knows how feeble they are. This is exactly the way he handled the simultaneous attendance of Oswald at PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans. He has no answers, and so he pretends Greg Parker does.

Use your own words, Tracy. Stop hiding behind Greg Parker! Speak up!

Hargrove is attacking the messenger in hopes that no one notices his failure to address the message.

Bravo, Jim!

Hargrove sounds quite a bit like Doyle in the manner he expresses himself. Must be all the magic the Foo Foo dust.

Thu 06 Apr 2017, 1:34 pm

This page speaks volumes, no way its Lee Harvey or Harvey Lee or any combination of their Oswald's.
...But even that can not stop a bad theory.

Thu 17 Aug 2017, 6:38 pm

greg parker wrote:Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban.

Wow...I cannot help but to automatically think of Morales and the topic I was reading here the other day about the scar over his left eye, etc. Not to say that the other guy was Morales but still, my brain brought up the other topic here. Great work Greg. I'd like to ask Hargrove until I get an answer. It shouldn't be a big deal to him, I mean if he's (and Armstrong) are wrong then they're wrong, lets move forward with good, accurate and honest research.

Sat 26 Aug 2017, 11:06 pm

Sandy Larsen wrote:If the name Lee Oswald wasn't written on a Bolton Ford document when this incident occurred, then the incident should be thrown out in my opinion.

http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif

Sun 27 Aug 2017, 10:53 am

greg parker wrote:

Sandy Larsen wrote:If the name Lee Oswald wasn't written on a Bolton Ford document when this incident occurred, then the incident should be thrown out in my opinion.

http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif

Predictably, Sandy, having now realized that "Oswald" was the only name written, is busy looking for excuses to hang on to this particular branch of the putrid tree.

Mon 04 Sep 2017, 8:38 am

With the Bolton Ford incident in tatters, Big Jim is now down to waving around the bid sheet listing Friends of Democratic Cuba along with the name "Oswald" and the fact that Hoover himself was kept abreast of this investigation.

Friends of Democratic Cuba included a former employee of Oswald in Gerald Tujague along with Guy Banister. What the hell is this supposed to be evidence of? Oswald worked at Reily's Coffee Company which also employed two Oswald relatives. Coincidences do happen. Oswalds were not in short supply and even Garrison believed the Bolton Ford Incident involved a relative of Oswald, not an impersonator.

As for Hoover being personally informed of the incident, this is why, from his WC testimony:

Reports in which there is a controversial issue or where statements have been made of the existence of some particular thing that we have never heard of before, I myself, go over these to see that we haven't missed anything or haven't had any gap in the investigation so it can be tied down.

What would make this incident fall into those categories? The fact that Oswald was in the Soviet Union at the time. Hoover being informed of it in no way shape or form gives it any more credence than it has on face value.

And Jim, your explanation for the height discrepancy is nothing short of pitiful.

Tue 05 Sep 2017, 11:17 am

Hargrove is valiantly hanging on to the Bolton Ford incident despite Bernie Laverick's withering critiques. I submit the following purely for entertainment purposes:

The answers lie with quantum Oswald theory, which means it's really, really complicated and utterly counter-intuitive.

Bottom line is if we detect the location of a quantum Oswald, we see his physical (quantum) state as only one of an infinite number of possible quantum states. So when an Oswald detector such as the salesman at Bolton Ford detects the presence of a quantum Oswald, Oswald can appear as strong and buff, weak and emaciated, or as any one of an infinite number of quantum states in between and beyond. Oh, and no safe house can contain a quantum Oswald; the quantum Oswald probability cloud extends to the furthest reaches of the universe before looping back in on itself. So fuggetaboudit. Obviously the salesman who spun the wheel that day got weak and emaciated quantum Oswald, but definitely not a cupie doll (although there was that chance).

Bolton Ford should come as no surprise since the same thing happened in the 2nd floor lunch room and also inside the cameras photographing the front entrance of the TSBD as shots were fired. Wherever an Oswald detector occurred, a quantum Oswald collapsed according to the applicable Heisenburg uncertainty principle derived probability equations. Interestingly, Einstein utterly rejected quantum physics, but he just didn't get it the way the H&L crowd does.

Now, some may question how we can have quantum Harvey and quantum Lee if there is but one quantum Oswald who is capable of being in only one place at any one given time? This answer lies with the concept of Quantum Oswald entanglement; a pair of quantum Oswalds became inextricably linked to one another (as a a result of those early genetic experiments) yet remained utterly independent of each other both in time and in space. Incredible! Conveniently for the perpetrators, if you kill one quantum entangled quantum Oswald, the other instantly dies (and I do mean instantly) even if the other is literally light years away, let alone locked inside a cast iron safe house.

I told you it was counter-intuitive Wink

.

Tue 05 Sep 2017, 3:47 pm

Jake, i'm going to respond to this as if I understand the dynamics.
Bravo cheers

Wed 06 Sep 2017, 11:02 am

Thank you Steely!

Latest from Lemkin at the Foo says don't try to solve the murder noodling with things like detailed evidence, give all that up and just pretend it's solved while whining to high heaven that no one will make the big changes that would be required if the murder were solved. I paraphrase.

Good way to accomplish nothing but a lot of whining though.

Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

Jake Sykes wrote:Thank you Steely!

Latest from Lemkin at the Foo says don't try to solve the murder noodling with things like detailed evidence, give all that up and just pretend it's solved while whining to high heaven that no one will make the big changes that would be required if the murder were solved. I paraphrase.

Good way to accomplish nothing but a lot of whining though.

That strategy is also in vogue at Der Forum, Jake. I believe they call it Weaponising The Truth. It's proved to be so efficient a tactic that it's about to enter it's 54th year.
Could we be doing something wrong?

Nah!

Wed 06 Sep 2017, 11:06 pm

Big Jimbo doesn't look like he is very light on his feet and yet he continues to point to more elephants in the room that he is soon forced to dance around.

His latest elephant is that Oswald's old sparring partner, Carlos Bringuier was the person who phoned the FBI about Bolton Ford.

Someone needs to point out to Jimbo that Carlos was the PROPAGANDA officer for the DRE and he had previously tried to sell the idea that Oswald was a Leftist who had tried to infiltrate anti-Castro groups.

Big Jimbo it seems, is happy to use information from anywhere that supports his cause - propagandists, FBI reports, witnesses who turn out to be old friends of Jack White, teachers not from the school whose report they are explaining, lesser witnesses who contradict the stronger witnesses. And on and on it goes, all the while accusing others of cowardice for not putting my posts here into their own words at the ed forum. In reality, this is just an excuse to avoid clicking that link and explaining where any of my work is in error. It is an act of palpable cowardice to hide behind meaningless and totally made-up debate requirements.

The thread in question at the ed forum is not really a debate anyway. It is a lesson in explicating the motives, internal contradictions, misdirections and shared mindset of a cult.

Thu 07 Sep 2017, 2:35 pm

Thu 07 Sep 2017, 4:31 pm

Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:04 am

mathias baumann wrote:Michael,

as far as I know Thornley started writing "The Idle Warriors" before Oswald even killed Kennedy. If that is true he certainly was very prescient...

About Wikipedia: I don't consider it a reliable source of information especially when it comes to the Kennedy assassination. I've done some work on the German-language article on the assassination, so I know what I'm talking about. The admin responsible for the article didn't even know who John Newman was, can you believe that? No wonder the article was completely biased.

About the Bolton Ford incident: Do you really think the use of the name "Oswald" was mere coincidence? What about the descripton of "Joseph Moore"? An athletic Latino who had a scar over his left eye? Just like the man who monitored Oswald handing out the leaflets in 1963?

Mathias makes a valid point.

Problem is in the following:

Sewell quoting Deslatte: "Say Fred, do you remember those two guys from Cuba trying to get some buses cheap?"

Oops. They were apparently both Latino in appearance.

Maybe they were?

The only alternative is that Fred is once again demonstrating that he was a poor witness.

Sun 10 Sep 2017, 12:34 pm

steely dan wrote:That strategy is also in vogue at Der Forum, Jake. I believe they call it Weaponising The Truth. It's proved to be so efficient a tactic that it's about to enter it's 54th year.
Could we be doing something wrong?

Nah!

And the tactic has worked so well at Der Forum that it has caused the de-materialization of several of the Founding Members.

This is mighty powerful stuff... too powerful for any one forum. It's use should be limited to CERN or another international scientific consortium.

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 7:26 am

Hello.

Thanks for letting me join the forum. There are a lot of great researchers here that I respect. I’ve lingered for a while reading through a lot of the topics. I’ve found this, the Bolton Ford Incident, an area where I may be able to help clear up some confusion.

Several years ago I went down this rabbit hole. I’ve found the Bolton Ford incident to be misrepresented by nearly every author who has commented on the subject.

Most glaringly, this group is not a “Bannister” group. This group was founded by William Dalzell and SAS. Dalzell enters the anti Castro New Orleans scene during the buildup for the bay of pigs invasion.

In addition this incident most likely did happen, and the man who used the name “Oswald” (NOT LEE OSWALD) was most likely Charlie Waters. William Dalzell implies this during his testimony to the grand jury in the Clay Shaw trial.

Of course, Charlie Waters wind up in Dallas in the fall of 63’......

I’ve conducted a lot of research into this incident and believe it to be credible that two men went to Bolton Ford on JFK’s Inauguration Day and asked to purchase discounted vehicles for the anti Castro cause. One of the men identified as “Oswald” (most likely Charlie Waters) and the other man used the name Joseph Moore, which is most likely an alias.

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 7:38 am

Dalzell is extremely interesting, independent of the Kennedy assassination.

For instance:

William Dalzell is also known as Billie Littlehorse. His parent(s) were native Americans. He spoke their language. In addition to 5 others. Spanish and Arabic amongst them.

Dalzell claimed he was a NAVY cryptographer in WWII. The NAVY denies to Hoover (in late 50’s investigation on Dalzell) that Dalzell ever served in the military.

Dalzell worked for Sinclair oil (same time as GDM) in late 50’s Ethiopia as some type of informative or intelligence man.

Dalzell tried to middle man several arms deal while in New Orleans.

William Dalzell also acted as a representative of Carlos Marcelo and had offered $250,000 for gambling concessions in Cuba once Castro was overthrown.

In Gus Russo’s Live by the Sword, he (Russo) claims Dalzell was a CAREER CIA man. Mr. Russo did interview Dalzell for the book. How he came to believe Dalzell was a career CIA is unknown to me.

There’s a lot more but off the top of my head these items are noteworthy.

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 8:13 am

Welcome t ROKC Will.
Fascinating reading.
The Bolton Ford incident is one of the zombie doppelganger myths that won't ever seem t die. Some folk insist on resurrecting it, adding a few suggestive layers of bullshit.
And the first name "Lee".
With apologies for mixing my undead metaphors...it could do with having a stake driven through it's chest..t keep it from rising up again

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 8:27 am

There is no indication the name “Lee” was used. Anyone who adds that to the Bolton Ford incident is using false and misleading information.

According to the first official reports after the assassination, the groups name, The Friends of Democratic Cuba is the reason the salesman (Deslatte) remembered the incident. Not because of the name Oswald.

The FDCC was an anti-Castro group so those claiming this incident is somehow used to create a second Oswald or to impersonate Oswald for some future operation are misinformed and misleading their audience.

This incident is interesting because it allows the researcher to delve deep into the anti-Castro operations and the anti-communist operations in South America that we’re based out of New Orleans pre bay of pigs.

I think it’s possible to identify the man at Bolton Ford as Charlie Waters. He matches the physical description and was the man assigned to solicit funds and make purchases for the FDCC.

Dalzell was connected to powerful people in DC and Louisiana. When he gets in trouble he makes one call and the Governor gets him off the hook. It honestly appears to me that Dalzell was acting as someones informant in the New Orleans area. He mailed secret recordings he made of meetings to someone. In addition he involves himself in a lot of the big deals in New Orleans. Guns, submarines, boats, planes, and gambling concessions. Dalzell was shopping them all.

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:35 am

FRIENDS OF DEMOCRATIC CUBA, INC.

Non-Profit Corporation

NEW ORLEANS

Inactive

Previous Names

Business:	FRIENDS OF DEMOCRATIC CUBA, INC.
Charter Number:	03100190N
Registration Date:	1/9/1961

Domicile Address
	526 MARITIME BLDG
	NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Mailing Address
	C/O GRADY C. DURHAM
	526 MARITIME BLDG
	NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Status
Status:	Inactive
Inactive Reason:	Action by Secretary of State
File Date:	1/9/1961
Last Report Filed:	N/A
Type:	Non-Profit Corporation

Registered Agent(s)

Agent:	GRADY C. DURHAM
Address 1:	526 MARITIME BLDG
City, State, Zip:	NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130
Appointment Date:	1/9/1961

Agent:	MARTIN L. MCAULIFFE
Address 1:	5668 WOODLAWN PLACE
City, State, Zip:	NEW ORLEANS, LA 70124
Appointment Date:	1/9/1961

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 10:59 am

According to this doc, Friends of Democratic Cuba lasted from Jan 9, 1961 to Feb 2, 1961.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=81057#relPageId=11&tab=page

I would also suggest it sorts out the confusion about Banister. He was put forward for a role as director, but the group apparently folded before that happened.

I don't find its short life span all that unusual. There were a number of such short-lived groups in that era.

This is from the same document and states that Banister miraculously located surplus trucks and jeeps on the river bank which were "due to be shipped to Cuba". This was the day after the FDC folded.

Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:07 am

Thanks for having me Greg. Here is one of the most interesting items I found. It’s in the “New Dalzell” file from the JG investigation and hosted on NARA.

It begins on page 4 of 38. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7564790?q=*:*

The Bolton Ford Incident

The Bolton Ford Incident

Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

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You ain't gonna know what you learn if you knew it.......

Checkmate.

Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

You ain't gonna know what you learn if you knew it.......

Checkmate.

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More on Bolton Ford

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